Daily Kos

"Some seem to believe"

Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:13:44 PM PDT

Today President Bush used a speech to a foreign audience, the Israeli Knesset, to paint Democrats as soft on international terrorism by likening them to those who appeased Nazis in the 1930s.

Some seem to believe we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along. We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: "Lord, if only I could have talked to Hitler, all of this might have been avoided." We have an obligation to call this what it is – the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.

The implication of "some" was clear - Bush was caricaturing Barack Obama's position that the US needs to seek diplomatic solutions to differences with Iran. In case anybody had failed to understand the attack, White House aides stated privately that it was directed against Obama and other Democrats.

When Bush was lambasted by Democrats for the stunt, WH spokeswoman Dana Perino ridiculed the idea.

I would think that all of you who cover these issues and have for a long time have known that there are many who have suggested these types of negotiations with people that President Bush thinks we should not talk to. I understand when you're running for office you sometimes think the world revolves around you -- that is not always true and it is not true in this case...I'm not going to get into '08 politics. The speech was not about '08 politics. If they want to try to make it about '08 politics -- and obviously be helped by the media -- so be it. But the President is President  of the United States.

So, was it an over-reaction to assume that the President was politicizing foreign policy when he compared "some" to Nazi-appeasers?

My review of occurences of the phrase "some seem to believe" and similar expressions at the White House website(*) shows that the only likely interpretation is that Bush was belittling Democrats. I've found a few joking references to some people's assumptions about Bush, plus an occasional neutral (i.e. non-polemical) mention that some believe this, others that. In the great majority of cases, though, George Bush's references to the beliefs of "some" people are polemical and condescending if not dismissive. Frequently the formulation introduces a straw-man argument. Almost always they are partisan references to Democratic critics. Here is a characteristic example among many such:

"Now, some would say, protect yourselves by withdrawing from the world."

One of the most remarkable patterns I discovered is that Bush uses these "some" formulations (whether in prepared speeches or off-the-cuff remarks) in regard to a very narrow range of topics: Iraq/Afghanistan; the 'Global War on Terror'; creating democracies in the Middle East; Social Security privatization; tax breaks; education (NCLB and private-school vouchers); and immigration reform. On every one of these topics except the last, Bush has been heavily criticized by Democrats. Indeed he uses "some" formulations most commonly in defending his most unpopular proposal of all, the 2005 attempt to dismantle Social Security. It's clear that "some" stands in almost always for "Democratic critics" of George W. Bush.

There are only a few exceptions, and these are telling. First, Bush has used the expressions "some people think/say" a total of three times to refer to those who disagree with his immigration policy. It's the only time one of these vague formulations is directed against Republicans - not surprisingly, given that it's one of the only issues where Republicans in Congress have ever criticized Bush.

The only other exceptions are two occasions when Bush claimed he takes the high road in political discourse: in his 2001 Inaugural speech ("Some seem to believe that our politics can afford to be petty because, in a time of peace, the stakes of our debates appear small."); and in talking to the Congressional Democratic caucus in early 2007:

"You know, I welcome debate in a time of war, and I hope you know that. Nor do I consider anybody's -- nor do I consider a belief that if you don't happen to agree with me you don't share the same sense of patriotism I do. You can get that thought out of your mind, if that's what some believe."

It could hardly be clearer that when Bush uses a "some" formulation in a political context, he's almost always trying to rebut Democratic critics of his policies.

(*) The expressions whose use by Bush I catalogued were: "some seem to believe"; "some think"; "some believe"; "some say"; "some would say"; "some people believe"; "some people think"; and "some people say".

  • ::

Tags: George W. Bush, Barack Obama (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 139 comments

  •  In simpler words, George Bush = douchenozzle (9+ / 0-)

    I support Barack America and his trusted sidekick Joe Delaware!

    by sharris0512 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:15:03 PM PDT

    •  "Some seem to believe" (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SciVo

      That the earth is round.
      That storks don't deliver babies.
      That the moon is not made of cheese.
      And that melting glaciers are drowning polar bears.

      Consign corporatism to the dankest crypt, and assign justice to the highest crag. For A More Perfect Union.

      by Alohilani on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:24:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  'some' in Bushspeak really means 'MOST' (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        geomoo, SciVo

        let's be blunt -

        He just can't - or won't - ever admit that.

        A large MAJORITY of Americans pointedly DISAGREE with Bush on this and most other issues.

        After all -

        What's HIS approval rating?

        What percentage of Americans think this country is on the WRONG course?

        Bush has RECORD DISapproval ratings - has been rated the WORST President in US History by 'some' historians (far more than would rate him as even mediocre.

        In Bushworld only some people believe differently from King George - it's beyond his ability to recognize that MOST people believe differently than he does.... it's inconceivable that MOST people could be right and that he is an abject failure

    •  recc'd (3+ / 0-)

      for douchenozzle. You should probably trademark that one.

      Common Sense is not Common

      by RustyBrown on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:28:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Some say" Bush is channeling... (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    paige, frandor55, Phil S 33, Do Tell, jds1978

    Katie Couric...

    •  I say impeachment is about due. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Helena Handbag, jds1978, SottoVoce

      Past due, and treason is a good reason.

      Can you imagine if Nancy Pelosi had made that statement while she wore the attire that was appropriate, for that country and region?

      I think she would have ended up as a rendition casualty.  Or worse, under this administration.  

      Who can say?  Who would have come to her defense?

      pb

      Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

      by panicbean on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:23:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  some say Bush should be impeached (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        madame defarge, jds1978

        I happen to be one of them.

      •  How about if she had had enough self to... (0+ / 0-)

        not show respect for those who don't respect us? But of course that doesn't include you, who squeal "Impeach" at every disagreement in the democracy that you have no respect for.

        •  ???What??? (6+ / 0-)

          You are snarking right?  Honestly, tell me you are.

          Democracy is not about me, it is about us and those we claim to support, invade, kill, or represent.

          Squeal?  I don't squeal, I scream!  Impeach the bastard now!

          I have so much respect for Democracy, but what Bush has conjured up is not democracy, it is far right wing and extremely ideological authoritarion, and stupid concoctions, along with potions, that he would have all of us believe.  

          Not you, heh?  Check this out!  (Any excuse to post it!)  And this is an incomplete list, in case you haven't been keeping up.

          just so you know:

          •I attacked and took over 2 countries.

          •I spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury.

          •I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history (not easy!).

          •I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

          •I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

          •In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history (tough to beat my dad's, but I did).

          •After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history.

          •I set the record for most campaign fund raising trips by any president in US history.

          •In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs.

          •I cut unemployment benefits for more out-of-work Americans than any other president in US history.

          •I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a 12-month period.

          •I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president, since the advent of TV.

          •I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

          •I cut health care benefits for war veterans.

          •I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

          •I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

          •I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.

          •Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, had a Chevron oil tanker named after her for a while.)

          •I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy.

          •I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world.

          •I am the first president in US history to order a US attack AND military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the vast majority of the international community.

          •I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland Security

          •I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history (Ronnie was tough to beat, but I did it!!).

          •I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations remove the US from the Human Rights Commission.

          •I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board.

          •I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

          •I rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant. I withdrew from the World Court of Law.

          •I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

          •I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections.

          •I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

          •The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

          •I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

          •I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government.

          •I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

          •I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

          •I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

          •I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

          RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
          • I have at least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine
          (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

          •I was AWOL from the National Guard and deserted the military during time of war.

          •I refuse to take a drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

          •All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

          •All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

          •All minutes of meetings of any public corporation for which I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

          •Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

          GEORGE W. BUSH
          The White House, Washington, DC

          Get over him.

          Sincerely,

          pb

          Good feet giving up good boots. http://www.bringthemhomenow.org/

          by panicbean on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:48:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Some say that Bush is shooting the (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      FarEasterner

      opening salvo against Obama by trying to swiftboat him regarding his comments.

      Bush is an idiot to think that this will work, what it will do is make me work harder to elect Obama and make sure that Bush is tried for war crimes.

      Memo to John Edwards: I want my $100 back.

      by Do Tell on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:24:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Some Say Bush is Calling the Kettle Black... (0+ / 0-)

      Didn't GWB have a grand daddy who got a whole bunch of business assets seized under the "Trading With the Enemy Act" in 1942?

      Something about Thyssen Steel?

      I thought so.

  •  I don't know who these "some people" (0+ / 0-)

    who think that Bush is referring to.  I didn't expect him to know any people who think.

    He doesn't want to talk to anyone who doesn't already agree with him, OK, we already know that.  You can see how well it's worked for him.

    moran.

    "In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." - H. L. Mencken

    by SueDe on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:16:59 PM PDT

  •  "It is WAY PAST Tribunal Time in the ... (9+ / 0-)

    ... United States of America."

    That's what this person belives.  Not "some person" you miserable coward, Georgie boy, but B Robert Franza MD.  

    Bring it ... you gutless war criminal ... bring it ...

    •  Can't we just tar and feather him? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      FarEasterner

      Drag him bodily from the White House and leave him in public stocks for a while? ... preferrably in the middle of Baghdad......

      Impeachment almost seems 'unnecessary' at this point.

      The clear evidence of crimes is overwhelming, his incompetence unquestioned, and failures too numerous to mention.....

      WHY is this man still in the White House?

      seriously......  at any other point in our history he'd have been removed - one way or another - long before now

  •  I heard him give the speech and he said... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    True North, frandor55, Phil S 33

    "As Nazi Tonks crossed into Poland..."

    Try as you might, you cannot spell HOPE with the letters GOP.

    by David Kroning on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:17:31 PM PDT

  •  But it's Republicans' God-Given right... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jds1978, FarEasterner, Alohilani

    ...to scream that Democrats and liberals are fellow travelers of Stalinists, supporters of terrorists, enablers of tyrants, back-stabbing pacifist cowards, breakers of families, and the like!

    How dare you suggest we deny them their due?

  •  Nazi-appeasers (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    frandor55, drmah, jds1978, FarEasterner

    So, was it an over-reaction to assume that the President was politicizing foreign policy when he compared "some" to Nazi-appeasers?

    Weren't Bush's grand daddies Nazi-appeasers?

  •  i cannot believe (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    altoid, FarEasterner, SottoVoce

    that anyone will buy this. the shrubs grandfather actively supported the Nazis AFTER we were at war with them. the insanity on Chris Matthews show with the idiot from the right shows just how low and base the dialogue has sunk. this is a severely fucked up country when the entire 1930s political climate is reduced to 3 words by some moron on on the right. what is far worse however, is that the American public tolerates this base level of discourse. in any other country, particularly in Europe this moron idiot who was on Matthews would be discredited and finished. but not here no. he will go on back to fox news, and millions of people will listen to this shallow drivel and believe it.

    the problem in America isn't the republicans. the the people of our country who don't demand better intellectual discourse of their leaders and the press.
    if we are going to fix the problems we are going to have to admit where they lie. squarely at the foot of the average American

    Welcome to the empire. now run away if you can... life is not a dress rehearsal

    by johnfire on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:20:15 PM PDT

  •  Some would say (8+ / 0-)

    That Bush is a war criminal with no more morality than a weasel, and that he has forgotten his own family's history as supporters of the up and coming Nazi regime.

    In this case the some is any reputable reporter of historical fact.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Marx (no not that one, Groucho)

    by marketgeek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:20:54 PM PDT

  •  some people... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    paige, jds1978

    actually approve of George Bush's performance.  No wait, no people do.

    John McCain graduated in the lowest 1% of his Naval Academy class.

    by glutz78 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:22:43 PM PDT

  •  Over-reaction -He** McCain and Lieberman were the (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smintheus, aitchdee, Phil S 33, Stroszek

    first to jump on the wagon with Bush.  They can't back-peddle now --- they connected the dots to Barak immediately. Please don't let them claim "mis-speaking."

  •  it's a great opening salvo for Obama (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jds1978, FarEasterner, DFutureIsNow

    re foreign polcy

  •  Semantic apologists (0+ / 0-)

    "Some" seems to about all that the apologists for our enemies can come up with. "Some" people seem to think that this has to mean "some" Obamas, some democrats, some silly asses, and some whatevers.

    Actually it means "some" apologists for tyrants, fanatics, and woo woo jerks.

    Clearly it also mean "some" Daily Kos nutcases.

  •  Like the idiot (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    drmah, OldPhart

    on Hardball, the guy doesn't know what appeasement means. Just another perfectly stupid statement by someone who seems to have the metal capacity of Minnie Mouse. And, before I get handed my head, I apologize to Minnie Mouse wherever she is.  

    Common Sense is not Common

    by RustyBrown on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:26:51 PM PDT

  •  He learned it from watching Katie Couric (n/t) (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Phil S 33, FarEasterner, Stroszek
  •  I take Ms. Perino at her word. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    revenant

    If Ms. Perino says Mr. Bush's comment is not about anyone involved with '08 politics, I will believe her. We must then, look to something deeper--indeed something, perhaps, close to Mr. Bush. Something he needs within his own heart to rectify.

    I believe President George W. Bush was making that statement to--in his own way--apologize for the Nazi crimes perpetuated by Mr. Bush's father, Prescott Bush, who was by most accounts, a traitor to America during WWII, and a Nazi collaborator.

    It must feel good to come clean on the world stage after all this time. Thank you for your bravery in confronting the horrors of your deeply shameful family history. I believe you've earned some respite today for your heroic, heartfelt actions.

    Reward yourself and go play some golf.

    "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran!" McCain doesn't need a presidency. He needs a Playstation.

    by The Gryffin on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:28:12 PM PDT

  •  Irony... Bush's quote of an appeasor senator was (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    drmah, jds1978

    (it is asserted) Sen. Borah (R-ID).

    Damned Hitler-appeasing Republicans!

    We need not think alike to love alike -- Ferenc Dávid

    by ogre on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:28:43 PM PDT

  •  Oh, and as for Dana Perrino (5+ / 0-)

    Chris Matthews rightly nailed her today with the title "blank slate" for her ignorance of recent history like the Cuban missile crisis. See other diaries for hilarious vid of know-nothing republican bloviator pwning.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Marx (no not that one, Groucho)

    by marketgeek on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:28:49 PM PDT

  •  Some would say (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    OLinda

    ....that bV$h is a barely literate, dry drunk clown

    When There is No More Room Left in Hell...CONSERVATIVES Will Walk the Earth!

    by jds1978 on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:29:25 PM PDT

  •  Bush (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Emerson, frandor55, jds1978

    He should have been taken off the world stage a long time ago. Impeach. So many reasons, so little action.

    Thom Hartmann called Bush a "terrified little man."
    -----

    I'd say it's our (the majority in Congress) fault he is even speaking out. He should be gone or at least undergoing proceedings to kick him out and jail him.

    It will be interesting to see what the Republicans do if we are in power in the presidency soon. They will no doubt impeach for some non high crime again, and then Pelosi can say gee whiz I thought it was off the table. "I was nice; I can't believe they are doing this."

  •  Funny How This Election Is Now Bush v Obama (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    True North, jds1978, abraxas, voila

    And McCain had to limp in. LOL

    McCain/(Hagee+Parsley) '08 "We Hunt Jews and Muslims So You Dont Have To. Straight Talk"

    by DFutureIsNow on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:30:33 PM PDT

  •  as with his stance on hostile foreign leaders (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smintheus, FarEasterner

    he uses "some" to avoid direct discourse with domestic political opponents.

    It's a testament to his fundamental weakness and cowardice.

  •  Quiz Time (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    shirah, FarEasterner, SciVo

    Can you guess which of the quotes below are from Bush and which from A. Hitler? Answers will be posted later on tonight.

    "Imbued with the desire to secure for the nation's people the great religious, moral, and cultural values rooted in Christianity, we have strengthened the religious institutions."

    "I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we're really talking about peace, a world peace."

    "It shows us that the Almighty has not deserted our people, that He received it into favour at the moment when it rediscovered itself. And that our people shall never again lose itself, that must be our vow so long as we shall live and so long as the Lord gives us the strength to carry on."

    "I think we are welcomed. But it was not a peaceful welcome."

    "There's always a temptation, in the middle of a long struggle, to seek the quiet life, to escape the duties and problems of the world, and to hope the enemy grows weary of fanaticism and tired of murder. This would be a pleasant world, but it's not the world we live in. The enemy is never tired, never sated, never content with yesterday's brutality. This enemy considers every retreat of the civilized world as an invitation to greater violence."

    "I can thank God at this moment that he has so wonderfully blessed us in our hard struggle for what is right, and beg Him that we and all other nations may find the right way, so that not only the out people but all nations may once more be granted the blessing of peace."

    "My legacy, will consist in works of peace, which I still intend to create. But I think that if God has already disposed that I can do what must be done according to the inscrutable will of His, then I can at least just ask Him to entrust to me the burden of this war, to load it on me. I will shrink from no responsibility; every hour I will take this burden upon me. I will bear every responsibility, just as I have always borne them.".

    Take a stab, and no cheating, mmm'kay?

  •  Bush Arguing Foreign Policy Its Like A Dinasour (0+ / 0-)

    Arguing the price of gasoline. I was like huh? WTF is he talking about ?

    Mr. 21%

    McCain/(Hagee+Parsley) '08 "We Hunt Jews and Muslims So You Dont Have To. Straight Talk"

    by DFutureIsNow on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:32:37 PM PDT

  •  Some would say that as the Republicans grow (0+ / 0-)

    increasingly desperate, an October surprise of war with Iran grows increasingly likely.

    Just sayin'.

    " ... or a baby's arm holding an apple!"

    by Lavocat on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:34:00 PM PDT

  •  I invoke GODWIN'S LAW (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SciVo

    to end this pathetic discussion. It means that Bush must shut the fuck up.

  •  The Bush family was worse than Appeasers... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    shirah, FarEasterner, SciVo

    Prescott Bush, GW Bush's grandfather, was a Nazi Collaborator.

    We the People ordained our Government to promote our General Welfare;
    If We the People want Health Care for All, Government should provide it.

    by Jimdotz on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:36:58 PM PDT

    •  Nazis and the American Liberty League (0+ / 0-)

      A lot of the elite in the pre-WWII period were members or supporters of the American Liberty League. Their main goals were destroying the National Labor Relations Act - they spent many millions on this fight - and supporting fascists in Europe.

      So the reality of what "some people" were doing with regard to the Nazis was aiding and abetting them.

  •  some might say... (0+ / 0-)

    Now you won't get this out of your head for the rest of the night! Mwahahahahahaha!

  •  We Need to Expose McCain (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    shirah, SueDe, FarEasterner

    We all need to work hard to expose and get the press to expose McCain as being the candidate who says one thing but does another.

    Over and over again he tries to get away with saying pathetic bullshit, like "let's be civil in our tone" but let's also accuse the other candidate of being comparable to an appeaser of Nazis.

    Then there's that fantasy speech and video from McCain today, where he imagines what his presidency would be like in 2013.  Nevermind that it is pure fantasy, and that McCain has no way of creating the utopia he paints.  

    Perhaps the Obama campaign should accuse McCain of being the candidate of "just words".  Perhaps say something like "I know I've been accused of having 'just words' but it seems it is my opponent who specializes in throwing out words without the substance behind them.  It is because I so value the power of words that I cannot allow John McCain to throw out words so casually and utterly lacking in reality."

  •  I wouldn't be too afraid about (0+ / 0-)

    painting the Dems in congress with ANY brush with how cowardly they have been.  

    Why doesn't he just go down there and bully them for there lunch money....

    This loser can't leave office soon enough.

  •  Pretty funny given that Bush's grandfather... (0+ / 0-)

    helped raise money to support Hitler.

  •  It's like what Zelda Rubinstein said: (0+ / 0-)

    ::::

  •  Some people believe (0+ / 0-)

    that our president, who some call Chimpy, is a slobbering drunk and a war criminal.

    Some people believe that when he uses "some people believe" he's trying to be clever, while others believe that he says that because every time he says "those motherfucking liberals" he gets an electric shock.

    Some believe that this bastard should be impeached.

  •  True... (0+ / 0-)

    I think Obama's approach would be refreshing: truly try to negotiate where we can (not half-assing it like the George puppets, Colin & Condi); fight only when necessary (such as when attacked instead of preemptively).

    One thing I have yet to hear him address is what he will do with all our alliances (if a statement of President Obama's exists on this somewhere, then I know my fellow Kossacks will point me to it!).

    For over 200 years, the cornerstone of American foreign policy was to remain free of "entanglements":

    "Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none." - Thomas Jefferson

    "It is our true policy to steer clear of entangling alliances with any portion of the foreign world." - George Washington

    "We give up our sovereignty, but fail to win any real allies. We pay all the bills, risk the lives of our young people, and invite UN meddling in our domestic laws, yet still we sow the seeds of discontent and future hostility with the world community. All because we have abandoned our Constitution and the founder’s ideal of noninterventionism in favor of globalism. What is badly needed today is a coherent foreign policy based on American national security and self-defense, free trade, a rejection of entangling political and military alliances, and a wholesale removal of the U.S. from the clutches of global government." - Dr. Ron Paul

    Don't get me wrong: I'm not an isolationist, and the men quoted above aren't, either. But as long as we are entangled in NATO, S. Korea, Israel, the EU, Japan, and anywhere else the US really has no interest, American kids (like two of mine, Kos, and others) will be targets of convenience in wars not of our making or unmaking.

  •  Jonathan Alter just said (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    aitchdee, Clyde the Cat

    "it was the worst speech by an American president in my lifetime."  And McCain jumped right into the middle of it.  Yeah baby, he's a maverick!

    My mama named me Helena Hussein Handbag. What about it?

    by Helena Handbag on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:46:16 PM PDT

  •  Bush is a cretin, and should be (0+ / 0-)

    censured.  I also find it highly disgusting that some in the audience even had the guts to applaud at the end of that childish act which was undignified, and downright pathetic.

    Shame on them all.  History books tell us just what Bush's grandfather did to profit in WWII, and I am very sure that Elie Weisel who was also in attendance at that speech, knows as well.  

    Hypocrites.

    "..The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, and every day the paper boy brings more...." - Pink Floyd

    by LamontCranston on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:46:22 PM PDT

  •  I seem to believe... (0+ / 0-)

    that George W. Bush is a sorry excuse for an American President, and that he should be facing impeachment and prosecution.

  •  Depends on your definition of (0+ / 0-)

    some and believe.

    Do you know the difference between education and experience? Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't. Pete Seeger

    by Mas Gaviota on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:46:56 PM PDT

  •  feh (0+ / 0-)

    you probably could have made this point in one or two sentences.

    something like:

    "bush is a dipshit who uses straw man arguments which no longer work in america.  americans see right through his dumb ass statements at this point.  after all, we're much worse off, oil prices have doubled despite his oil war, we twice as much in debt, etc. etc. etc."

  •  On C-Span just now (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Emerson, revenant

    they read the Joe Biden quote unexpurgated.

    first time I ever heard the world "bullshit" on C-Span.

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
    69 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

    by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:47:39 PM PDT

  •  Some people ... (0+ / 0-)

    "Some people ... Some people prefer cupcakes.  I myself care less for them."

    I hope to die laughing.

    by altoid on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:47:46 PM PDT

  •  To quote the great Kate Bush ... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    revenant

    "Some say that knowledge is something that you'll never have".

    How apropos with King George and John McBush!

    " ... or a baby's arm holding an apple!"

    by Lavocat on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:47:53 PM PDT

  •  there's part of me that wishes (0+ / 0-)

    that Obama's response had been

    "What do you mean, SOME people?"

  •  Someone asked me if he was evoking Carter (0+ / 0-)

    and connecting the perception of weakness out to Obama.  Anyone else get that vibe?  I didn't, but it's an interesting thought.

  •  "some" is always a weasel word in this context (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smintheus, aitchdee

    if someone is actually saying it, say who it is!

    in fact NO ONE is saying we should negotiate with terrorists and radicals, least of all Barack Obama.

    Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
    69 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

    by TrueBlueMajority on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:55:31 PM PDT

  •  More Bush injects himself in O8, better for Obama (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smintheus, shirah, sunbro

    Obama is running against Bush, the most unpopular president in US in over 70 years.

    Having Bush attack Obama is good for Obama and bad for McCain.  It makes Bush McCain's spokesman at a time when McCain is trying to pivot away from embracing Bush to win the GOP nomination and now is trying ti distance himself as much as possible from the unpopular Bush to win the general election.

    Much to McCain's horror, Bush is now doing what Obama wants most, setting up an election fight between Bush and Obama, sidelining McCain in his own election fight.

  •  Some... (0+ / 0-)

    Some would say that authorizing the torturing and murdering people should get you thrown in jail if not executed for committing capital crimes under Title 18, Part I, Chapter 118, § 2441.

    Now that would accurately describe Democrats, unfortunately none that are in office though.

  •  Some would say Perino is a bald faced liar (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    sunbro

    "Mr. President, I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed." General Buck Turgidson

    by muledriver on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:56:20 PM PDT

  •  "Some say".. (0+ / 0-)

    Strawman quotes from a hollow man.

  •  There has been too much appeasement by the Dems (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    FarEasterner

    Starting with a fascist George W. Bush.

    He has lied and bullied his way out of the control of the Constitution,
    and the Dems have appeased him.

    No more.

    "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." Thoreau "Some of us bitch about it some." Retiarius

    by Retiarius on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:58:57 PM PDT

  •  Weasel Words (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smintheus

    May I point out that (oh so appropriately) Wikipedia defines "some say" and its brethren as "weasel words"? And recommends avoiding use of them in any Wikipedia entry because they can be misleading and difficult to substantiate.  
    And while I would like to think that the term came about because our current president uses them so often and is such a weasel, in truth the term has been around since the early 1900s.

  •  Excellent post, smitty (0+ / 0-)

    Defending bad taste and liberalism since 2005.

    by jurassicpork on Thu May 15, 2008 at 06:59:58 PM PDT

  •  Some people say that (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    FarEasterner, Clyde the Cat

    George W. Bush, by far the Worst President in America's History, is an ethically-impaired, draft-dodging, cocaine-affected, addle-brained, alcoholic, corrupt, chickenhawk idiot.

    -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

    by sunbro on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:01:32 PM PDT

  •  Not sure what the female version of a tool is. (0+ / 0-)

    But that's Dana Perino.

    There is no Left Wing. Left is the truth.

    by BA BarackUS on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:02:13 PM PDT

  •  "some people believe..." (0+ / 0-)

    ANYTHING!! Or at least that it what Chimpy and clone McSame have convinced themselves!!

  •  thanks for posting the link re: White House aides (0+ / 0-)

    privately acknowledging that, indeed and of course, the remarks were directed against Obama and also Jimmy Carter.

    it was painful today to go look at Talk Left and see the anti Obama, pro-Hillary commenters writing the same comments that the anti-Obama, pro-Bush commenters at the SF Gate/SF Chronicle story on this today were writing about how Obama sure is egotistic isn't he, he thinks the whole world revolves around him, Bush didn't mention him at all, he just likes being a prima donna, and getting fellow Dems to pay attention to him. I particularly remember one indignant comment at TalkLeft about how Biden etc. were "freaking out about an imaginary attack" and another fantastical comment about how Bush's Israel comments were no doubt referring to Al Gore and Al Gore's father, "a pacifist throughout WWII" or something along those lines -- holy shit. Al Gore Sr. a WWII vet, of course. This comment, at least, got some wtf?s. I posted the CNN link in the SF Gate thread, but won't post at TalkLeft.

  •  Howard Dean, the Underlying Theme behind (0+ / 0-)

    the Republican Disaster that will be 2008, has always dealt with the "Some People....." shit in a very effective fashion.

    I loves me some Howard.

    That was a damn good conference call with Smilin' Joe, too. I wisht he would have said "bullshit" a few more times, though.

  •  Some would say... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    FarEasterner

    ...that George Bush is a lying sack of shit with an IQ roughly equivalent to something I dug out of the cat box this morning.

    I would argue that the contents of the cat box are smarter than Bush by an order of magnitude, maybe two.

    But that's just my opinion.

  •  Diplomact vs. Appeasement (0+ / 0-)

    As Chris Matthews pointed out this evening, Chamberlain's policy of appeasement was not about diplomacy. From the failure of the French to react to the violation of the Versailles Treaty with the rearmament of Germany, to the the illegal reoccupation of the Rhineland ... the is was appeasement. Talking with Hitler at Munich was diplomacy. Giving Hitler carte blanche to occupy the Sudetenland, the Czechoslovakia, the Austria ... that was appeasement (and cowardice) on the part of the Allies. Standing by in the Sitzkrieg, or "Phoney War" after the invasion of Poland was beyond appeasement, but continued that misguided policy of Chamberlain and the French.

  •  By Bush Definition Reagan and Nixon Traitors (0+ / 0-)

    Nixon went to the Soviet Union and China - without pre-conditions (unless you count ping-pong) - both of them implacable enemies of the U.S. Does W not remember Krushchev's "We will bury you" speech?, never mind support for the North Vietnamese (both China and the SU), etc. etc.  We're talking the Cold War.

    Reagen declared Gorbachev someone he could do business with (well Thatcher actually said this) but he always followed her.  Helloooo?  Reagen selling the US out to the Soviets at Rejkyavik!  Oh right, we won the Cold War.   Hmmmm....so we have two GOP Presidents that are traitors by Bush's definition, including one who is a GOP Deity.  Seems like a double standard to me.

    (Meanwhile Bush's War has been the single greatest empowerment of the Iranian Mullahs since the 1979 Revolution.)

  •  Some say W is a contemptible little dork. (0+ / 0-)

    The insinuation that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, would exploit his POW status for political gain, is outrageous!

    by AdmiralNaismith on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:31:59 PM PDT

  •  Breaking -- Really! Obama Appeasement! (0+ / 0-)

    In response to Iran's claim that their hegemonic impulses are driven by nothing more than a desire for the volk to have breathing room, President Obama has today announced the transfer of West Virginia to Iran's soverign control.

    Is that a real poncho, or is that a Sears' poncho? - Frank Zappa

    by JoesGarage on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:33:22 PM PDT

  •  Some seem to believe (0+ / 0-)

    that Bush is a complete asshole.  And they're right.

    "The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity." W B Yeats

    by stonepier on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:34:27 PM PDT

  •  And then there's this one (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    smintheus, shirah, SciVo

    Remember how Bush blamed "some people," i.e., Democrats for believing that "brown-skinned" people could never be self governing?

    Text of President Bush's Press Conference

    Published: April 13, 2004

    "Some of the debate really centers around the fact that people don't believe Iraq can be free; that if you're Muslim, or perhaps brown-skinned, you can't be self-governing or free. I'd strongly disagree with that.

    I reject that. Because I believe that freedom is the deepest need of every human soul, and if given a chance, the Iraqi people will be not only self-governing, but a stable and free society."

    http://www.nytimes.com/...

    Not all who wander are lost. J. R. R. Tolkien

    by NCJan on Thu May 15, 2008 at 07:47:27 PM PDT

    •  yes, that's one of my categories (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      hazey, shirah, NCJan, SciVo

      Bush repeatedly talks of "some" people who don't believe that people in the Middle East want to be free or can live under a democracy. It's one of his more pathetic straw-man arguments. Here are examples I collected:

      July 2004

      "Some believe that democracy in the Middle East is unlikely, if not impossible. They argue that the people of the Middle East have little desire for freedom ..."

      Oct. 2004

      "An enemy couldn't conceivably become a democracy, some would say."

      Oct. 2004

      "There were a lot of doubters the Japanese, the enemy could never become a democracy. Why do we even want to help them, some would say. "

      Dec. 2004

      "Some believe that the only solution for government in parts of the world is for there to be tyranny or despotism."

      April 2005

      "Oh, I know, some people say that's not possible in certain societies. I don't believe that. I just don't believe it. I believe everybody longs to be free."

      April 2006

      "In some of the most advanced parts of our world, some people no longer believe that the desire for liberty is universal. Some people believe you cannot distinguish between right and wrong."

      June 2006

      "I believe when you look back at this moment, people will say, it was right to encourage democracy in the Middle East. I understand some people think that it can't work. I believe in the universality of freedom; some don't. I'm going to act on my beliefs so long as I'm the President of the United States. Some people say, it's okay to condemn people for -- to tyranny. I don't believe it's okay to condemn people to tyranny, particularly those of us who live in the free societies."

      June 2006

      "Some people say, it's okay to condemn people for -- to tyranny."